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Jun 18 09 1:33 PM

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Jay, what (in your opinion) is the best option for cooking on a boat with a view to the coming reality?... I am a bit strapped for cash, so cheaper is preferable... I might finally have found a boat in reasonable condition that I can afford, but it is without a stove at present...

I know gas is convenient, but I am worried about longer-term availability and price. The cheapest non-gas option is probably an alcohol stove (and I can always make that at a pinch). Wood would probably involve too much heat (SoCal etc), and is probably a little bulky for storage...

Kerosene?

Is there a multi-fuel pressure stove (like an MSR) that can run alcohol and kerosene (plus maybe diesel or petrol) available for a boat? I have an MSR backpacking stove - maybe make a gimbal mount?

Any thoughts?

Cheers
Neil


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#1 [url]

Apr 2 10 10:01 AM

Hi,

Take a look at Rocket Stoves. A good place to start is http://www.aprovecho.net/. They're wood/charcoal, but various installations maximize or minimize heat into the boat.

Also, consider a variation of a Zip Stove (forced air, small combustible fuels)

For sustainable combustibles with less BTUs, but requiring more effort, consider these:

Penny stoves are DIY burners (alchohol, which can be DIY distilled... see 'refractory still') that are very adaptable.

Canned heat (sterno like) can be made with DIY and scavenged materials... one recipe at http://chemistry.about.com/od/funfireprojects/a/flaming-gel-recipe.htm.  Henley's (sp?) Formulas had a couple of recipes, too.

Hope these are inspiring!

Dave Z

www.triloboats.com

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#2 [url]

Apr 2 10 10:35 AM

Everyone I knew either had a propane stove with an aluminum propane bottle or had an alcohol stove.  The folks with the alcohol stoves generally disliked them.  If it were me, I'd go for the gas stove and get some alternate stove as a backup.  Some of the folks on neighboring boats had those cast iron "Wing" stoves which run on gas, that is a fairly inexpensive set up.  Another fellow just had this gas burner which set on the top of one of those small gas bottles.  That was a very inexpensive set up but it couldn't do more than make a bit of hot water for tea.

So what kind of boat did you find?  Sailboat?  Sloop?  Ketch? Yawl?  Fiberglass?  Wood?

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#3 [url]

Apr 3 10 11:40 AM

Dave Z.... of alaska/junk/sharpie fame....?

A rocket stove is my plan actually (I spent a lot of time with Ianto Evans a while back.....) and I have a penny stove I am testing...


Chooks - I ended up with a fiberglass Marieholm 32 - sloop, full-keel, fractional rig (slightly under canvassed...no surprise there) - the one with the unconventional cabin/deck style. I tried for a couple of Yankees but they wouldn't come down to my price point, and had SoCal-only sail selections (140%+ rollerjib + main) It was the best overall deal I could find for a really solid boat. I bought it up in SF bay and sailed down to LA. Currently I am planning oarlock installation...

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#4 [url]

Apr 3 10 1:09 PM

Hey Niel,

well, a certain infamy, I guess, though we're on our new sailing barge, now (that's it in my avatar pic).

Ianto Evans is quite the guy. I really like his ideas and way of approaching problems. Cob/rocket heaters might make a good topic for the forum, along with other approaches biomass heaters.

I've worked up a plan for a combo heater for our boat... airtight box on one side, with a rocket installation to the other. The goal is to make an efficient hot spot on the range top (over the rocket chimney), while being able to generate hold-fire heat when desired. I'm debating how much firebox and weight to give over to thermal mass (gotta watch our waterlines, now 8) ). I'm thinking sheet metal with a plate top.

One possibility is to retrofit a commercial stove, such as Backpacker, Sheepherder or 3Dog types,  (NuWay a great little shoebox size stove... cheap and well made) but we'll probably just start from scratch.

What are you thinking for your rocket? Will it be a stand-alone, can style, or embedded in some kind of box?

BTW... you've probably heard of the 'straw-box' type ovens? Insulated box or bag, bring stuff up to heat on stove, then into box. Can supplement with a hot thermal mass (stone, concrete, etc) for more aggressive baking.

Congrats on your new boat!

Dave Z
www.triloboats.com

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#7 [url]

Apr 3 10 7:11 PM

Dave Z.... of alaska/junk/sharpie fame....?
A rocket stove is my plan actually (I spent a lot of time with Ianto Evans a while back.....) and I have a penny stove I am testing...

Chooks - I ended up with a fiberglass Marieholm 32 - sloop, full-keel, fractional rig (slightly under canvassed...no surprise there) - the one with the unconventional cabin/deck style. I tried for a couple of Yankees but they wouldn't come down to my price point, and had SoCal-only sail selections (140%+ rollerjib + main) It was the best overall deal I could find for a really solid boat. I bought it up in SF bay and sailed down to LA. Currently I am planning oarlock installation...

-subgenius

The Marieholm 32 looks like a capable cruiser.  Is the one with the "unconventional" deck the one with the single big porthole in the cabin area or the one with the two big portholes aft and one small one forward?   Scandinavian built?

My first boat was a Hallberg P28 which seems to be a smaller version of that style of boat.  It sailed real well even if it was a wooden boat and could suck up half the ocean whenever it pleased.  It was a really pretty boat which is always a plus.

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#9 [url]

Apr 3 10 7:48 PM

Oh, by the way, I used kerosene/whatever oil I had available and would stick with it. Once you learn how to use pressure gas appliances it's hard to switch, because they're very practical. It's a skill. I've got a couple of vintage Primus burners someplace. These are supremely valuable and rare so look for them. I'll take a photo. It's not commonly known that the early and best Primus heads were actually billet machined units, and are near bombproof. The later were brazed together, and if they have a Primus stamp are still pretty good. The Portuguese or otherwise knock offs are ok, but not near as good. You can find old stoves in various used whatever stores all over the place and I've bought them in the past for the heads. A good burner head is worth 50 bucks, a billet one I doubt anyone would sell. I'll post a photo at some point. I've never actually seen a new one except for the one I've got in a box.

I love pressure gas appliances, and having lived with them and cooked with them for over 15 years have come to equate the quiet white noise and the ritual of priming and pumping them up with home. Pretty cool stuff, but they seem to give some people fits. Well, so does lighting any proper fire, that's how it works. You don't get to flip a switch, but all in all it's pretty easy doing.

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#11 [url]

Apr 4 10 12:49 AM

Chooks -

like this, but yellow... The hull form is basically a scaled-up folkboat, but the transom is squared off above the waterline and gives a boxy look to the stern (and a lot of storage in the lazerette!)

Jay - cheers for the info on the billet machined units - will look out for them....I loved using my dad's oldschool primus as a kid, but went more high-tech with my own, thinking newer = better... not a view I still hold...

Dave_z - still thinking about the rocket stove...trying to figure out how to mount one sensibly. Also the can-style ones can put a LOT of heat out the chimney, enough to set a tarp alight 6 feet above (experience speaking...) and hence I worry about sails and dodgers. Plus I object to such energy wastage (and Ianto would NOT approve). I want to set up one similar to the ones built in the Cob Cottage style, with a cook surface above the J, then a flue run out from below that. Space and location is the issue. It will require moving internal stuff about.

The straw box is a great way to cook "hotpot" style, and I believe bread can be done though I have never tried it. As I am down in SoCal, I am also on the lookout for a smaller old satellite dish that I can cover with mylar and use as a reflector for a solar grill/hotplate.


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#12 [url]

Apr 4 10 1:01 PM

Niel,

That's pretty much our approach, to (re rocket stoves)... put 'em in a box to contain their formidable powers.

One material to consider? There's a sheet product (called 'rockboard' around here) that's concrete with a fiberglass matrix, about 1/2" thick. It looks easy to put together into relatively lightweight box (compared to brick and firebrick).

Here's another stove to gander at (http://www.envirofit.org/?q=our-products/clean-cookstoves). Not really good for indoors (boats) but food for thought.

Dave Z

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#13 [url]

Apr 4 10 2:07 PM

Hmmm, hadn't seen envirofit before, but had seen similar at http://www.stovetec.net/us/products

The G3355 at envirofit is along the lines of what I am thinking - using a longer horizontal cook/heater surface to take the flue aft (the current origo stove is at the aft end of the large cabin port). Fabrication is the issue, along with protecting fibreglass from heat without involving too much mass...

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#14 [url]

Apr 5 10 3:46 PM

Hey Niel,

Heat shields work great to protect structure. Any sheet metal (copper works best as a heat conductor) mounted on posts (copper tubing cut short works great.. screw or bolt through tube into wall), mounted about and inch off the wall... leave a gap at the bottom. Cool air is drawn upward, cooling the walls. Test with a strip of something dark... if too hot, add another sheet (we've never needed one). Paint walls white behind shields.

Rocket stoves, being internally insulated, don't need much extra at sides or back. Maybe a smoke bell (pan or pot lid) over the stove for unexpected Pelee events?

That Stove-Tec is way cool AND available in the US (too bad the ceramic core isn't).

Consider ammo boxes for a rocket stove box (lots of general how-tos on the net). They're light, come in lots of sizes and have hinge/latches for easy cleanout. May need a sacrificial plate over the rocket flue.

Nu-Way (http://www.nuwaystove.com/products/model965.htm) makes nice little ice fishing stoves for wood or propane. My Bro used one on his boat and made rails out of copper tubing. Could add rocket insides to that, too.

I'm attaching some pics of our proposed combo stove (doodle stage). It's rocket to one side and airtight to the other. It could be further baffled or controlled for different heating patterns on the range-top. The rocket side of the divider would be insulated (aluminum foil balls?). Cap off the rocket feed for airtight use.

Dave Z





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#15 [url]

Nov 21 10 11:57 AM

Jay,

I'm with you on the Primus stoves.  But the burners can be darn hard to get.  Once in a while I see a stove or a bulkhead heater for a reasonable price and I try to buy them.  I have a stove and heater in both boats.  I have not finished the installation in the second boat.  The chimney installation is not what I would like it to be.  I may be down to welding SS pipe shortly.

I am still trying to master the art of using them.  My wife is too impatient and ......well, I cook.

I have four burners on back order from two each from two different sources.  One is well over a year old.  The other is at two months now.  The fiddly parts seem available enough for now.

For the life of me I don't know why they are not more popular.   The are so much safer than propane.

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#16 [url]

Nov 21 10 12:16 PM

Well, like anything one has to actually "learn" something to use, well, most can't be bothered by that learning stuff.

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