Is there even such a thing as "green building?"

I'd agree with your green building take until one of Punawebs last posts, 3 plants to clean indoor air.  If factual, it could allow us to escape bad vog events by tight sealing a room.

Hi Gordon, nice to see you here.

We both know someone who we need to get up and running producing biochar. . .don't you think?  

Yep, saw him the other day and he is working on charcoal for his burner,  he had problems keeping it burning, but it does work, he needs a good dry fuel source.

He had just heard of biochar but hadn't thought of going that way, though making charcoal would leave a lot of biochar.  \

He's also trying to get a means of burning his sawdust by compacting it to fake logs for fuel.

I'm about to make a good sized burn of dried waiwi for my up coming garden,  planning a trench  for the wood, to be covered by old metal roof and dirt after the blaze begins!  Planning on a number of varieties of sweets from the volcano area plus your variety.

Biochar is worth money. If he can convert crap to cash--it's a great idea. I'd buy it. Really. I make it here but I'd use more. It's worth a beery discussion anyhow.

Biochar will cut any farms fertilizer budget in half, easy. I can't believe it but I've the evidence now. In fact, I've found that it's really easy with char in the ground to create toxicity, and you must be very careful. Plants will survive, but the effect is very much that of over fertilization.

Triple 16 is too hot if you've got char. I was suprised to see that.

There is no such thing as green building. There is only "less destructive" building. Scale of impact is paramount. Glad to see someone finally assert that. Prepare to be crucified.

Enjoy the forum. I'll check by from time to time and hopefully add something to the conversation.

Downscaling the size of the dwelling would make it more green but still just a tad less than black as far as carbon footprints go. 

A true "Green" building would be using materials on site to build the structure using hand tools and human or animal labor to do the work, however, that method doesn't meet building code.  For local building material, we have assorted woods (non of which meet the "standard grade" type lumber required by the Building Department), bamboo (ditto on the Bldg. dept. nix), rocks and ???  Rocks are not good during earthquakes.  Sod houses, maybe although they aren't so good in the rain.  Grass huts used to work sort of for the early Hawaiians, but I don't think the Bldg. Dept. would approve of them, either. 

I had an uncle who built a house of walnut trees and rocks.  It was a regular mainland style ranch house and he built it of walnut and rocks because that's the only stuff available where he built it.  Another more interesting uncle built a house out of cement.  The whole house, including the workbench and the built in dog dish were of cement.  He also made cement fence posts.  He liked cement.  I dunno if the cement was "green" but he did add local rock to the cement.

So, until we can get the laws changed if we want to build a truly green building we will have to do it illegally.

The Puna Community Development Plan pointedly outlaws building in traditional Hawaiian fashion. Go figure.

Or if I remember right you can build a little grass shack with the right permits but you can't live in it.

My alternative building mentor has long made the point that permits will never empower ecobuilds due to the lack of commercial support. His solution: buy land with a small legal building, or build the smallest legal structure yourself (so you have a point you can bring any required services to (mail, phone, etc) then build the structure you actually want hidden away (he actually advocates just doing away with services and the legal structure completely as the cost is generally larger than the ecobuild). He also advocates building structures that will biodegrade - then if you get caught you pull out all recyclable materials and build again somewhere else. It is amazing how easy it is to hide a structure if you plan it that way, and the resultaing building is often beautiful - I love the way they just seem to appear from the vegetation/landscape. I know a group in Wales who successfully developed a village unseen on a hill farm and occupied it for 20+ years before getting discovered (by a survey flight seeing flashes reflected from a newly-installed solar PV..)

There is no such thing as green building. There is only "less destructive" building. Scale of impact is paramount. Glad to see someone finally assert that. Prepare to be crucified.

I don't really agree with this - you can build in such a way as to use only natural materials, and use them in such a way as to enhance the quality of the site by creating microclimates and dealing with all inputs and outputs in an ecologically sound manner. It IS a lot of work to set up, but can be a lot cheaper  (financially) than the conventional techniques. As I mentioned in the above post - biodegradeable buildings DO exist - cob, strawbale, timber, cordwood, etc. Rammed earth probably qualifies under this too, but requires some big mechanization, and bringing any mechanization to a site that is larger than hand tools plays havoc with the soil (compresses and kills) - as well as requiring a lot of clearing of vegetation. Dispensing with mechanization neatly brings you back to the build it small mantra...

Another possible approach (depending on the exact zoning and permitting processes) is to build numerous free-standing "rooms" below the size at which one requires a permit. Often the legal situation allows the construction of buildings less than 140 square feet, so you can get away with a kitchen/living building, a sleeping building and a bathroom/greenhouse building.

I dunno if the cement was "green" but he did add local rock to the cement.

Cement is never "green" - the standard version creates a lot of CO2 in manufacture and continues off-gassing CO2 for some crazy period of time after being mixed and poured (they had this problem with that "space habitat" experiment they build in the desert a decade or two ago). There is an "ecocement" that uses magnesium (I think - I was involved in a trial of it a while back) that actually sequesters CO2 as it cures, but it still has a massive initial energy and CO2 cost to manufacture. As a result I try to avoid cement unless absolutely necessary.

Good morning.

I remember reading somewhere lately that the company that owns the process on the Mg based eco-crete stuff is under some kind of investigation for falsifying data, if so, it's a shame and yet another example of people trying to capitalize on the concerns of other. I'll have to look that up.

Yeah, I was skeptical about it from the outset - my part in the trial was limited to using as a replacement for the normal variety in an earthship...

Earthships have encapsulate many interesting and useful ideas, but imo the construction technique isn't one of them.

well...i've lived in and/or worked on just about every kind of "alt" structure ...
i lived in taos in the original earthship colony...the "construction technique" wasn't inherently lacking; it's that the philosophy of "cheap" took the reins from that of respect for sustainable craftsmanship by qualified tradesfolk. 

I have met/worked with Mike Reynolds ("Garbage Warrior" was made by a one-time next-door neighbor). My criticism of the construction technique is that it requires a massive (verging on ridiculous) amount of effort, and if the earthship is designed into a hillside also a large amount of concrete. Mechanization or a massive number of man-hours are required for any but the smallest structures. I am also unconvinced by the idea of living in a structure potentially off-gassing from deceased tires. I do love the finished product (other than these concerns).

I have personally worked on numerous other types of structure that I found easier and more fun to build, and used less/no concrete.

The systems package and on-site handling of waste is, however, exceptional.

well, the earthship is a desert design, and meant to be labor intensive in tradeoff for free materials, whereas much of modern housing is made of expensive material designed to avoid paying for skilled labor.

the official earthship story is that the tires do not decay if not exposed to sunlight, but i have no idea.
...other means could easily be used to shore the outer dirt, free recycled metal for example.
 i wouldn't want to build one... but no need with so many other free materials to use here.
  was nice to live in though, except for the lack of respect for skilled labor...snow blew inside the gap between the door and frame!